Payroll Tax Savings Most Builders Miss

Operations pro Angie Aki joins Reece to demystify payroll tax savings, W-2 vs 1099 trade-offs, benefits that actually help retention, and the liability/insurance pieces builders overlook. We finish with a simple action plan—clean AR, right retirement setup, and a smarter way to pay yourself.

https://angieaki.com

Show Notes:
0:00 Welcome and who’s Angie
 4:25 From “Go Ask Angie” to operations pro
 5:54 Payroll taxes and benefits most builders miss
 6:49 W-2 vs 1099: true costs and risks
 19:02 Liability, audits, and paper trails
 21:13 Culture beats chaos when you grow
 23:41 Retirement options for small builders
 28:10 Insurance you can’t skip
 29:40 Owner pay, draws, and clean books
 30:06 Quick wins to implement this month
 31:36 How to reach Angie + wrap

Find Our Hosts:
Reece Barnes
Matt Calvano

Podcast Produced By:
Motif Media

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to builders budgets and beers. I'm Rhys Barnes and I started this podcast to have real conversations about money in the building industry, the wins, the mistakes and everything in between. I believe builders deserve to feel confident about their finances, and that starts by hearing from others who've been through it too. This industry can be slow to change, but the right stories and the right tools can make profitability feel possible. Let's get into it. G mics are hot. We're ready to rumble All right. Um, let's do it. Yes, let's do it. Let's jump in. I'm super stoked to have you on the podcast. Thank you for joining. Thank you. I always like to give the listeners a little or have the guest rather give themselves a little bit of a background so listeners know who they're who they're tuning into. Do you want to let them know who's talking and what your background is? Sure, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure and honor to be here. My name is Angie a key. I run a business solutions concierge and consulting company. So what that means is I love to work with business owners and help them keep more of the money they make. I am a believer, and when you put good money in good people's hands, good things happen. So we all started our businesses, you know, for our families or to build a legacy. So the more money you can keep, put back into your family, put back into your community, the better we all are. So that is, that's my why. As far as why I started my business, I spent 18 years in corporate America and then jumped into entrepreneurship. So those 18 years in corporate America, were in business to business sales. I was in pharmaceutical sales for 16 years of that, and then jumped out into real estate investing, totally different world, and did wholesaling, which was fun. So I got to work with contractors hand in hand on some flips. It's, it's, was not for me. I realized after a couple years I was doing really well, and I was like, but why do I feel like I'm rolling a boulder up the hill every day? And I realized that my my happy place, is working with business owners instead of consumers. So I got back into the business to business arena and started working with small businesses, and I like saving people money and getting them to have keep more money in their pocket lights me up, like it keeps me going. It's like it's money in my pocket, which it's not, but I get that excited. So that's a little bit about No, I love it. I love it, okay? And that's super interesting. So I mean pharmaceutical sales rep to flipper to business consultant, no business coach. Is that fair? Yeah, consultant and concierge. I'm not go ahead, not coaching people how to run a business. I am bringing solutions that will save you money to you so you don't have to worry about finding so I think that's that's a good delineation there for the listener. So you started working with contractors when you were flipping obviously. How did you land on being a concierge and focusing on the work that you do now? Was that impacted? Did you see an opportunity and maybe tell them what you do specifically from a concierge standpoint? Sure, gosh, how did it come about? I don't believe in coincidences. I believe that things happen for a reason. I somehow, through a real estate investor connection I made. This is why I don't believe in coincidences, because through a real estate investing connection I made on Facebook. He connected me with this opportunity, which was the employee retention credit program. So I started, I was like, Oh, this is great. I can, I can help businesses get money back, right? And so I started working with businesses. And that was my aha moment where I was like, Oh my gosh, this is what I missed. So as that happened, then I started and that program ended, I was like, Well, what else can I do? What other valuable service can I provide to business owners? And I started putting pieces of the puzzle together. And I was at a networking meeting, and I was telling someone what I what I did, and people always when they want something, I network a lot. I have a big network here. I'm in Central Florida, and people always go ask Angie. Go ask Angie. Go ask Angie, right? And so I was telling this gentleman what I do, and he goes, Oh, you're like, a business solutions concierge. So, like, I'm going to you, and you're helping me figure out what I need, or I'm quarterbacking ways that you can save money or keep more of the money. Love it. And I say that because it is happily college football season. Yes, yes, I love it. Okay, so now specifically so you're just like, you're you're bringing on clients or prospects, and you're understanding, like, what their big challenges are. And. You are directing them into solution. Where do you spend the majority of your time? Like, where you keep mentioning, like, saving money, providing concierge service? Like, where is the big opportunity? And like, what are you what are you directing builders into? Yep, so I spend a large, large majority of my time with payment process. So there are a lot of ways that you can save money within payment processing, whether it be looking at dual pricing or I know a lot of people like to process within their accounting software. So that may or may not be the best fit. There are a lot of ways that you can do it and save a lot of money. So I spent a lot of my time there, and then I spent a lot of my time also within health management plans, which is not Group Health. I feel like I should just have a T shirt that says it's not Group Health. It's not major medical it is a it is a way to save and payroll taxes. So when you look at payroll tax savings. You're if you have w2 employees, they're really costly. You need them, and they're wonderful, and you want to take care of them, but they're really expensive. So there are a few ways you can save a payroll taxes, and I believe that I have one of the best ways to do so with some great benefits. So that's where I spend those two is where I spend the vast majority of my time. I also work with Affordable Legal benefits and accounts receivable. And then I did stuff recently with the Visa MasterCard settlement. Very cool. And then there are some more settlements coming up, so I'm vetting stuff that's out there as an opportunity and then proactively bringing it to clients that I'm working with. Understood, beautiful. Let's talk about the payroll tax conversation. Like, what like with w2 employees? Because I know we certainly have, you know, a lot of builders out there, they do w2 employees. Some of them do 1099, like, talk to me a little about what you see in the market from a payroll tax savings, missed opportunities. Go from there. There are a lot of missed opportunities I will I will tell you I work really closely with CPAs and accountants, and a lot of what I do is education. And I had a conversation last week with a CPA, and it was a really interesting conversation. This wasn't with a construction client, but it was a client, and she basically had advised them against one of the services I provide. I don't get it. I don't understand. Can you get me in front of her? And she was willing to meet, and after we met, she said, Oh my gosh, this isn't what I thought it was. Of course they should do this. This is a no brainer, and so so much of it is education and providing right so people look to their CPAs and accountants and financial planners for advice. But there's, there's only so much right education you can absorb and information that you have. And so with a payroll tax savings plan or a health management plan as an employer, you can save between $600 and$1,000 per employee per year, okay, plus your employee has more take home pay, so everyone is net positive when you put one of these plans into place, and there is a minimal schedule of benefits that goes along with it, and depending on the carrier, potentially some indemnity components as well. So you're you're providing some and whether or not you have major medical or not, that's great, and this can work alongside of it, but you're providing either additional benefits or benefits if you don't think that you can afford them at all. And you are saving, excuse me, in payroll taxes, and your employees are saving in payroll taxes. So it's, I believe, one of the biggest missed opportunities for savings within organizations. Okay, so, no, it's a lot tough. Yeah, I'm kind of so I'm this is just like, not my world. And honestly, I feel like this that might be the case with, like, a lot of listeners, listeners, small business owners, especially since you're saying, like, this is a huge, commonly missed opportunity, like, I guess, like, my first question is, why isn't this the standard? Like, this kind of just seems like it's a very like, easy no brainer. Like, you could be saving $1,000 a year on payroll taxes per employee. Employees are making more money, like, I guess. Why isn't that the normal? Well, it's like anything in life, you have to have people to go out and communicate it, right? So the distribution, which is, which is part of what I'm doing, right? So you need people out there talking about it. You need, you know, I partner with a lot of people to help leverage so that I can get more information out and reach more people. So I work with payroll reps. I work with CPAs and accountants, you know, I work with HR people to help get the word out. I work with fractional CFOs to say, hey, here's a way. Because. Someone has to bring this to to the client, right to the business owner, whether it's myself or one of my strategic partners, and we have to sit down and walk through it with them. It's not something to be very candid. It's not something that people are like, Oh, I immediately get it right away. We have to go through it. We have to go through how the money flows, and you really, you have to understand it. So it takes a little bit of explaining. So it's not something that's just like, right? Oh, I totally get it. It takes a little bit of explaining. And I think that's why it hasn't more people don't know about it. Also, who is really think about it. Who's specializing in payroll tax savings, your CPAs and accountants are really looking at income tax Right? Like, that's their right, or sales tax and whatnot. And then you have, you know, your payroll, people are selling payroll, so they're filing your, you know, they're filing your quarterly tax returns there for payroll. But, like, who is looking at payroll tax savings? No, Angie, I am. Yeah, I am. And it's, it's, it is. So it's so cool. You know, when you look at a business, you know? And I looked at a business owner the other day, 12 employees, you're going to save $9,000 a year. Yeah. Then I look at a different a different employer. There's multiple locations, you're gonna save $359,000 a year. What? Right? So, right, it's insane. It's mine, 60 Yes. And is right out of like or impacts the bottom line, yes, and they have hundreds and hundreds of employees. How many, obviously, right? There are a little over 400 Okay, so that's, this is a big shop, but still, it's a, it's a big right? They have multiple locations, but still. But then think about, and I tell people this all the time, it's typically the smaller businesses that are like, Oh my gosh. This is like, this is so impactful. I'm working with a restaurant. I know we're we're speaking to contractors and trade. So bear with me. It's just an example. But you know, she's going to save over $25,000 a year. And I thought she was going to start crying. She was like, Oh my gosh, thank you. You don't know what this means to us, right? You. She can potentially hire someone else totally, and she could buy something for the kitchen. She can so and so impactful. Where the 359,000 number is really big, right? It's big and flashy, but sometimes it's the smaller numbers that seem to make more impact. 100% well, and I think like, this is going to be a good is going to be a good pivot to talk about your world, like, more specifically in terms of, like, the contractors, the general contractors, the trades, the specialty contractors, people like that, because it is such a low margin business. And like so much of it does, it can get down to the 1000s, the percentages, the decimals of percentages. Like, how can we run it so? Like, what have you seen from like, a success story standpoint with contractors? Like, what does that typically? How does that process typically look for them when you start talking to them? So it you know when you're looking or when you're talking to any business with really tight margins. And to your point, there are certain industries with tighter margins, at least, that is my belief and opinion, right? And so there are certain industries with tighter margins, and that's where this really is. It can be so much more impactful, because you're not looking at, you know, cutting the quality you're talking about construction, you're not talking about cutting the quality of the products you're using, right, or the materials you're using, you're not talking about cutting the quality of the service or the people you're hiring. You're not cutting any quality. You're simply pulling a lever, right? And so when you think about it like that, you're pulling a lever, and then, oh my gosh, by the way, it impacts your net operating income, right? So it impacting your bottom line, which, as a business owner, directly impacts the valuation of your business by just putting in this, this thing, right, that you didn't know about. And so that's what's so it feels so magical about it, especially for the industries that have such tight, tight, tight margins, because it's not, you know, you're not having to, like, I said, cut on, you know, now you're using a sub par material because you really, like, your margins are too tight, right? You need, you need to cut costs. You're not having to do that. So this is a way that you can, you can leverage something totally and just make it a more more effective, efficient way to employ people, and that is that. So that's just like, this is technically like dropping the amount of burden, cost that you have on that employee. Is that right, making them like, effectively cheaper to employ. In essence, you're lower you're lowering gross taxable wages without. Getting too nitty gritty, because I know you're like, This is not good, and probably our listeners, it's not, but what you're doing is you're simply lowering gross taxable wages, and then you have a claim payment too. So it's all, it's all, and I'm happy to walk through it with people I love. I'm like, here's how the money flows. Because it's like anything, you have to understand how the money flows totally right? You have to understand how, and I know that's what you guys talk about on the show all the time, right? You have to understand your cash flow. You have to, you have to understand that totally well. And I think that's like, that's one piece that I want the listeners, because I do, I think, like, you've got a really interesting story, Angie, and you're providing a lot of value, I think, for the for the construction world, like, do they have to have 5w two employees for this to make sense? Two, one? What happened? Like, what's the difference between their 1099, employees and their w2 employees? I guess I guess I just asked you, like, six questions there so we can unpack and tackle, like, the one that's the most fruitful. But what's your take? Where do we go? Um, yes, so there are a couple questions in there, so I'm going to go back and answer them. Um, so 1090 nines right now, and I say right now because we're working on a solution to support, um, 1090 nines and subcontractors. But if you think about we're lowering payroll taxes, well, you don't pay payroll taxes for 1090 nines, right? For subcontractors. So for the health management plan, it does not work unless they're w2 right? So they have to have some type of wage you're paying payroll taxes on. So that's an important delineation, although we may have another solution rolling out at some point for subcontractors, we do not today same answer or similar answer for the number of employees. Ideally, we typically look at 10 or more employees. We are working with a carrier that I work with, and we have great conversations, and they take feedback and make changes. And I love working with companies like this. So we don't want it to be 10 employees and more. We want to be able to serve smaller businesses, if need be. So we're looking at lowering that threshold. Right now, it is 10 w2 employees or more, but in the very near future, it should be less so by the time you're listening to this, it's worth reaching out, because who knows? Could be less? Totally okay, well, and I think that we can, we can follow this thread, because there's a lot of like so in adaptive, we just rolled out our labor tracking feature, and we've got several customers that are large builders, like 1020, 30, $50, million a year builders, and they run a lot of 1099, employees. Is that? Because, well, and I say 10 nine employees, and obviously, like this is where it can get confusing in construction, is you do subcontract out a lot of labor, but even individuals, like project managers will be 1090 nines. Office staff will be 1090, nines. Does the business do that to get around having to pay payroll tax? Or why do businesses take that approach or make that decision? Do you know? Or do you speculate? It would be, it would be speculation, you know, like, oh, I don't, I don't know if I want to go down this rabbit. I think it's important. This is good conversation, especially someone who's very pro w2 right? It, it is, it is important. And it's not necessarily that I'm pro w2 I'm pro w2 when it is the right thing to do. So I, and I work with a lot of HR people, so remember that, and I'm saying that because I hear it from their ends as well. A lot of people will put people staff, right. We'll call them staff. Will categorize staff that should be w twos as 1090, nines, because, yeah, it's much cheaper. If you don't pay payroll taxes, they don't pay payroll taxes, right? There's there's less liability, and so a lot of people do that, but oh, by the way, if you do that incorrectly and get snagged, there are a lot of fines that go along with that. So I always recommend working with someone, whether or not you have an HR department or not. I i met with a lady this morning, and she just outsourced HR. I work with a lot of people that do outsourced HR, so, oh, by the way, if you ever need help with that, let me know. I don't do it, but I can help you find someone. Because I do really think it's an important thing to look at and discuss, because you don't want to do it incorrectly. Because, oh, by the way, if you're supposed to pay taxes, you will eventually pay taxes right. So we want to make sure you're doing it correctly. But in my opinion, a lot of people will categorize staff as 1090, Nines when they when you look at the requirements, and there's documents out there that say, Hey. This, if they do this, they should be w2 right? And these are the requirements this, 1099, and that that will help. But I think a lot of it is, is to save money. Okay, you know? And especially when you're looking at tight margins and industries, it's like, hey, where can I save money? So that makes a ton of sense. So, and this is actually, and we could be going down, like, a totally path, like a wild path that you don't know about. So just like, stop me, or, like, tell me if you don't know. But okay, like, a component of this is that I typically hear, especially with business owners that are running 1099 employees, and then they decide to bring someone onto w2 is typically around benefits, right? It's like, kind of like, it's like, an exciting thing, almost, of like, I was 1099, and now I'm a w2 employee, and I get benefits offered through the company, and I get PTO or whatever else comes with it, right? I should know this, but, like, why I like to save taxes on your 1090, nines. Is it more reasonable to make your employees w2 employees, to offer them benefits build a stronger culture like invest in your team, while considering the savings that something like you, what you offer reduces that cost. Is that fair? I mean, I think that that would be fair to take a look at it and see, you know, I think that there are, there are so many components that go into it, and it is a lot of it is based on, how do you want to run your business? What is the culture, what is important to you as a business owner, and it's like anything out there in the world, whether it's construction, right, trades, whatever it is, there's there's good, bad, ugly, and yeah, and neutral, right? And so there's a lot of reasons people do a lot of things, but it's worth considering and asking. I mean, I'm always for asking people. I'm just like, What You See Is What You Get, right? So if you have a team of 1090 nines, Hey, is it important to you to you know, if we looked at bringing you in as a w2 is that important to you? Is that something that you would appreciate or not? You know, if you can, if you are of the situation where they could go either way, have a conversation with them. What do you see the decision making, being with W or with employees that are having that conversation, or just deciding that, what typically drives a business to go w2 instead of 299? I know you. There's a lot of reasons. But what is like? What are some really good reasons to consider, if I've got a builder out there that's listening to this podcast, and they're like, I've got a team of six people, and half of them are 1099, but I think I do want to bring them in as w2 what are some strong reasons to do that? So when you when you look at the statistics, the reason that people, historically, will choose one job over the other is not pay its benefits. Okay? So when you look at attraction, and I know specifically within the construction industry and trades, right, there's a shortage of folks out there, right, you're looking to attract employees and and retain them. So if you just look at that, that statistic, and that's how people are making decisions, and they're making it based on benefits and not just money, that's pretty impactful. You know? It helps with employee attraction and retention same. I have a partner that I work with for retirement plans, right? There's a lot of tax credits that you can get for offering a retirement plan. Well, once an employee is with you and they start building up their retirement there, you have an increased employee retention there. You know, can they take it with them? Of course, they can totally, right, but it's the more that you're offering them, the the you know, we always talk about customers being sticky, right? Or return customers you want to provide your your team with the tools they need to live a happy and healthy life and build their life or build their wealth, right? So it, it just depends it. And I get pretty passionate about it, but it depends on, on what you want. I think that there's a lot of reasons for w2 and and I get, I get the 1099, you know, rationale totally. And I listen, I'm this is coming from a person where I don't want a team to manage. So let me be really clear before someone called me out, and it's like, No, she doesn't have a team, right? I get it. I have led a team before. I have managed a team. I have been in management. I'm good, yeah, so the people that support me, they are subcontract to be clear. Yeah. I. Um, so I just want to be totally honest there, because that's, that's what you get. You get 100% transparency with me. I love it. I run, I've run a very different organization. So there are, there are reasons for both. Yeah, right, okay, no. And I think this is great. I love that you added that because, like, I think that just, like, validates a lot of what you're saying in terms of like, it's like, there's a lot of things to consider, and it's kind of like, what you want out of whatever business you're growing. And I mean, I'm, I'm sitting here thinking, it sounds like the 1099, path is to reduce a tax liability pretty significantly. But the w2 is designed for a call it a stickier culture, or to offer your team more benefit. Is there? Is there a way, like, let's just use you as an example. Is there a way for you to say, like, Okay, I've got this subcontractor that works with me, and they're a rock star, and I never want to lose them. You would extend the w2 is like, almost like a promotion. Is that a way to look at it? Or? No, I don't know. I mean, I guess you could, okay, I don't, I don't know. I think that that's per I think that that's personal. As far as how people want to run their business, sure, and if they're bringing them in on a as a w2 but they're not offering any additional benefits, then that's not really, yeah, it's not really a promotion. It's almost like the w2 has to come with the benefits aside, because they're gonna get paid less, right? So I think you just have to, I think that there are so many things. And, you know, full disclaimer, as a CYA, remember 16 years in pharma, I do not provide legal, tax, human resource advice, any of the things, right? So this is all this is all opinion, just so you know. And I do firmly believe that people should consult people that are human resources professionals to make these decisions and say, Hey, here's my job description. Here are my requirements. Is this a 1099, or is this a w2 because it's, there's not too much of a gray area. Like, people think it's really gray. There's not from, from what I understand from some of my HR counterparts, there's not a ton of gray area, okay? And that's probably where, like, I think this this is the topic, like, to your point earlier, that needs a discussed and talked about, because there is, there's, like, certainly the boundaries, which is what you're explaining. But for me, like, I'm still kind of sitting here, like, God, like, I don't know how, like, I would not that I'm, like, advising customers on this, but like, how I would talk to them about, like, going about doing a 1099, versus w2 versus, like, the savings that you could have as a w2 and adding the benefits. Like, I think that's what makes this such an not discussed topic, right? Like, there's a ton of pieces that go into it, right? Because you you look at it, and you look at, you're looking at payroll taxes, you're looking at benefits, you're looking at potentially retirement, right? Are you looking at additional liability now you have staff? Do you need different insurance coverage, right? There's all of these pieces that go into it. Do you need to provide equipment? Do you all of this stuff goes into it and it's, it's a really important piece. So, and I have had clients say, hey, what you know? Can I make these people 1099, or what should I do? And I will tell you 100% of the time, I refer them to one of my human resources counterparts, because I, I don't know, right? And so getting with a professional that really does know is really important, because you want to make sure you do the right thing. And there are laws around both, and you want to make sure, make sure you adhere totally again, 16 years in pharmaceutical sales, there's a lot of lot of guardrails. So constant Cy, totally, totally, well, and I think just even like as a takeaway, like, with a when, when you talk to builders about this, and I'm just going to talk about builders specifically, because, like, you're certainly making it loud and clear. There's a lot of variable and nuance here. And I could just already see builders being like, this is why I 1099, or like, this is why I don't do benefits. Like, what are some like, easy starting points for them to start digesting or considering or talking about to go down this path of like, should I w2 should I start standing up benefits? And how can they do it? Well? And you think about builders or contractors as well, right? And it's like, hey, well, if I can't, you know, what? If I don't have, you know, and some, some of these guys and gals, maybe, you know, they're constantly building, and they never have a lag time, right? But I've worked with contractors where they're like, I subcontract things out, because I don't know how many, right? How many roofs? Am I going to have to put on how much drywall Am I having to put up? How much so I could have? Maybe I'm working on five houses this month, and then maybe next month, it's one right? So then if you have to carry the labor costs, like you were talking about labor costs, you have to carry that labor cost whether or not you have five houses, 50 houses, or one house and you have however many people doing that, that's a huge burden to your organization. So I think that a lot of that, some feedback I've gotten is a lot of what your your expectation for cash flow and consistency, I think is really important to understand, because either way you bring someone on as a w2 you're you're paying that person right, whether or not you're bringing money in or not, right, where subcontractors, it's obviously easy. Hey, now I have, I need, I need 10 of you guys, right? This month, okay, next month. I just need two of you right? And so that's easier to work through the ebbs and flows, especially for newer businesses, right? It in this industry specifically, it makes a lot of sense. Now, I know, and a lot of trades it, it doesn't right. A lot of them, the feedback that I've gotten as they a lot of trades will bring staffing on as W choose. So it seems to be a little bit different, but I think it's always worth the conversation and talking to other people. I always try to connect people that are in the same industry and doing the same thing, because I don't really believe in competition anyway, so I'm like, you guys can learn something from each other, right? Or you can talk about pain points or collaborate or something. And so a lot of that conversation is really important to have, and it trades versus versus builders or construction may be very different totally. And I think that's like when you mention the trades, that makes sense, because it's like, if you think about like a plumber or an electrician, right? Or someone who they can build up a lot of volume in jobs that require a lot of people to do that, whereas, like, maybe a general contractor with a project manager who's building a custom home that's going to take 18 months, 24 months to build. It's like, that's a lot. You could literally see an economic downturn that impacts backlog halfway through a project, and you'd be like, Dude, I don't know if I can handle three project managers anymore. I might only need one insulate yourself as a builder to run a 1099, crew and not be committed to that cost. Yeah, yeah. So it's, it's all interesting conversation. Yeah, totally, totally, no. Mike, yeah, totally. And I think that's like, that was one of the reasons why I wanted you to come on is just like, start opening up this conversation. Because I do, I think, like a, like, with us coming out with labor and like, tracking that internally, like a, from a cash flow perspective, like, it's, we'll just call it for simple math, like, 50% of the project, right? It's like 50% of the project, labor, 50 project labor, 50% is material. Obviously, there's, you know, nuance there, and spread there, probably quite heavily. But the point is, is, like, that's literally what it takes to build anything as material and labor. And for people to think about this through a different lens is super important. So No, no, I appreciate it, I guess. Where are people like, where can they find you? Angie, to learn more about this, open up this conversation. Obviously, we've made it clear, like, there's a lot of nuance here, right? There's a lot of nuance. There's a lot of like, explaining and does this work for you? Is this something that you should be considering? Where can they go to find more resources to start a conversation with you? What do you suggest? So you can always go to my website, Angie a key.com and it's a N, G, I, E, and my last name is a, k, i, so Angie a key.com or you can email me at Angie at angie@key.com and I will schedule a call with you, and we can talk about ways that you can save money because we talked about health management plans. We talked about payment processing, which, oh, by the way, right? We talk about accounting a lot. You're running your payment processing through your accounting provider, right? And you where your your books are. It may not be the best solution for you. So let's look at some other options and or at least get some information right. And no matter who you work with, my goal is to always just provide education. So reaching out. I typically will have a call with someone and meet with someone, and we'll go from there, and then typically we'll do a consultation. And my goal, and my job is to find money that you did not know is available totally. I love it. That's my I love it. I love it. And that's where, just for the listeners, again, it's Angie, a key, A, N, G, I, E, A, K, i.com I think for anyone who's out there, that's specific. Specifically, 10 or more. W2, employees should certainly reach out to Angie. And I say that because when I was talking to Angie, I was talking to you was scbc, yeah, the southeast built conference, and you were talking about this. I was like, this is kind of seems like a no brainer, and I think it's important to open up this dialog to your like, very first comment was like, the reason why people don't know about is because it's like, distribution and getting the order. Distribution and getting the awareness out is, like, talk to her, because it sounds like some pretty, like, low hanging fruit, easy opportunity to get into and just like, save some immediate money. So yeah, it's, it's a no brainer in my mind, right? It's easy. And I will tell you it's, it's something. And I always say joke around. I'm like, no one wants to talk about payment processing unless something is broken or they look at their statement, right? No one but me. But then when you start talking about health management plans and payroll tax savings, it's so niche and it's so exciting, and it's not necessarily new, but it's new to people, and it's something that can save you so much money without having to do much of anything, totally that's like the lowest hanging opportunity is what I'm hearing. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. Okay, go after the low hanging fruit. The low hanging opportunity is going to impact the bottom line. It just sounds like a good idea. But no, I appreciate you, Angie. Thank you for hopping on the show and spreading, spreading your wealth of knowledge. I still, I feel like there's, there's a lot more one on one that can happen here that will open up a lot of builders eyes. So definitely appreciate you hopping on and we'll just catch up soon. All right, thank you much. Appreciate you having me.