Funding Big Builds Without Losing Control with Brad Robinson

Reece sits down with Brad Robinson for his second time on Builders, Budgets, & Beers to talk about funding bigger projects without giving up the driver’s seat. They break down equity vs debt, what investors actually expect after you take their money, and how to choose the right partners for the deal. Brad also shares how he is connecting wellness-driven building with real estate strategy, plus the systems and SOP mindset builders need before they scale.

Website: https://bradfordbuilds.com
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradfordrobinson
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bradfordbuilt

Show Notes:
00:48 Show Intro
02:04 Brad's Background
05:37 Owner Rep Model
10:28 Holiday Show House
12:59 Where To Follow
16:47 Capital Viewpoint
20:23 Equity Vs Debt
23:53 Picking Investors
28:27 JV Vs Fund
30:25 Wellness Strategy
35:59 Systems Before Scale
38:53 SOPs Save You

Find Our Hosts:
Reece Barnes
Matt Calvano

Podcast  Produced By:
Motif Media

Transcript

0:00

Think about it in two ways. Do you want an equity partner or do you want a debt partner? And there are so many creative ways to craft a deal and how to get something out of the dirt, but you got to start there, and you got to understand the rules of engagement with those two different paths are going to lead you in two different places. Welcome to builders, budgets and beers. I'm Rhys Barnes and I started this podcast to have real conversations about money in the building industry, the wins, the mistakes and everything in between. I believe builders deserve to feel confident about their finances, and that starts by hearing from others who've been through it too. This industry can be slow to change, but the right stories and the right tools can make profitability feel possible. Let's get into it. You alrighty, Brad, mics are hot. We're rolling What's up, man, good to see you. Good to see you. As always. Really appreciate you hopping back on the show for the second time, which to share with the listeners, we have Brad Robinson on, who had one of the most successful, most downloaded episodes in builders budgets and beers not lying to you, 100% and builders budgets and beers history. And it was with Scott bland. It was one of our earliest episodes, and it was fixed price versus cost. Plus it was totally Scott, totally, totally was, you know, funny story, I heard Scott speak in DC this year at the cbusa summit. And, you know, his take there was really solid as well. I mean, he's, he's very, he's very with it. Love it, very with it. Scott has a very interesting background as well. But, yeah, yeah, but, but just construction in the family business was pulling him back too. I think Waco, I think he's, yeah, but being in DC, pulling back into his roots in the government like he had some stories to tell at the hotel bar. Oh, I can only imagine. I can only imagine, I gotta catch up with Scott. It's been a while, but I digress. Thank you again, so much for jumping on. Go ahead and give the listeners. For those that haven't listened to your episode or aren't familiar with you, give them a little background on yourself. Yeah, yeah. So we're down here in Atlanta, Georgia, and we're a custom home builder. We operate more like a customer representative, though oftentimes our clients are coming to us and have a pretty big vision in mind, you know, for what it is that they'd like to execute, and maybe don't have a lot of time. So we're, we've just been great at being conduit and connectors, back to some wonderful architects and some great interior designers, and have just a suite of amazing engineers on tap to help build these amazing projects. And you know this past Well, we're officially one year and 13 days into being in the Charleston market. Dude, congrats, across the threshold. Yeah, we, you know, and it's not without its hurdles and road, you know, bumps, but we're having a good time. We've got a great build that's in in flight. There a couple of transitions happening. We're in a we have a bald eagle on the adjacent lot. So we're still waiting on that bald eagle to fly the nest like a like a bird, like the bird, like the bird. Yeah, it's in. We there's a 330 foot federally protected fly zone around the nest, and so we're in the middle of waiting on that bald eagle to fly the nest again so that we could make noise and build a house. Dude. That's insane. We got to take a break. That is the shit that just blows my mind. I was talking to Mark Williams about a project that he had with, like, a really high end client, something to do with, like, light pollution. But these are the hurdles that you just don't anticipate or think about, and you're just like, how do you circumnavigate this? You wait, or you figure it out. I don't know. You get creative. Yeah. I mean, we admittedly went and got a federal permit to be able to work during this nesting period. But there's a biologist on staff for the for the Architectural Review Board and for the community itself. And so the community biologist gives guidelines on, you know, hey, look, you may have this permit, but you still need to hold tight because the bird is active. You know, it may be having babies, like, there's all kinds of stuff that has to happen. And, you know, transparently, the rules exist because I think, as it, as I understand it, and it could be hearsay or folklore, but some jet was buzzing down the, you know, the beach, and the bird fell out. And unfortunately, you know, now, all of a sudden, there's a protection in place to prevent these kind of incidents from happening again and protect, you know, these bald eagles who nest in the. Areas that we build on the barrier islands in Charleston. So, I mean, we're on the water. It's marshland, yeah, connected to, you know, basically the beach front. So it's a different environment altogether. And so I just enjoy it because it's so uniquely different to building in Atlanta or building in the mountains and Highlands cashers, which all present unique opportunities in their own right. But it's pretty fun to be able to build from mountain to, you know, basically plateau in Atlanta to beach in Charleston. I love having all three of those in my all those arrows are in my quiver. 1,000% it's all exposure. And, you know, I think these like little challenges, these little subtle sort of road bumps, as you put it, that just, it keeps you sharp, it keeps you on your toes. You know, it's just, it's problem solving. Okay, so you mentioned that that Bradford is obviously high end luxury custom home building. More. Did you call it a client representative? Correct? That's the term, yeah. We look at ourselves as owners representatives come in and advocate on behalf of the owner to deliver the, you know, the desired outcome, as opposed to being along for the journey of just building a home. Now, that being said, we have lots of wonderful relationships with architects and designers who will still bring a project our way, and they act as, you know, as a as a member of the Build Team, and you know, but clients I've found do not want to be project managers, and whether you realize it or not, if you come in as part of a team, one of three, in a lot of cases, you're oftentimes operating with a homeowner who is Acting a lot like a project manager navigating information or jockeying information back from each one of these people and architects typically, you know, sit in a position where they kind of lead the crew to but what I found is is that we, we just, we've, we find that more than not, our clients are asking us to step In and occupy that space, and we're happy to do so, and I think that we've delivered some wonderful projects with the outcomes that they wanted and and then we've just built a reputation based on that. So it's not to take anybody else's place, but I think there's a there's a place for it 100% I think especially as you do go, maybe call it up market might be the wrong term, but just like in a higher end build like that is certainly what that clientele is looking for, someone that they can truly trust and like know that the product's going to be moving at a very quality rate, very much so. And I think the other piece of the puzzle is, is that a lot of our clients have an understanding that we also develop so being in a position where we're investors and developers and builders, they know that we're uniquely capable of managing the entire process without them having to be involved. And in a lot of cases, our clients are busy professionals that do not want to be in the middle of it. They want someone to give them their freedom back and let them go do the thing that makes them money, or the thing that really makes them happy, and then be able to trust that they're they're giving it off to someone who's going to speak on their behalf and be the loudest voice in the room when it comes time to put that team together. So, you know, we're not doing the architecture in house. We're not doing the I mean, some cases, we're doing light interiors, but it's more design selection, coordination and collaborating with those interior designers. If a client does ask us to bite off an entire design project, oftentimes, you know, we're capable. It's not to suggest that my my designers that I have here aren't good enough to do it. They are plenty well good enough to do it, but a lot of times these projects are with named architects. They want a named interior designer sure that adds a bit of prestige and value, course, to the size of project that we're doing. And you know, when you're building a$9.8 million house, or a $5.5 million house, or, you know, even an $8.9 million house, which is the case in, you know, the other market, the name carries a lot of weight, you know, just inevitably it's and it's not even necessarily the name, it's what they design and what they're uniquely good at designing, because they ensure that all of those elements that they're known for stay intact and don't get veed out of their projects 1,000% and again, just going back to, like, the luxury side of this, like you're talking like a $5 million North product, like they're again, the clientele wants that. And I think the VE comments important too. It's like, these aren't people that are, like, trying to nickel and dime a project, like it's not, maybe not be like an open checkbook, like there are parameters around that, but they want what they want, right? Yeah, and no. I mean, look, I mean, I feel like, as as I've approached more projects that are north of 10 million in this past year, you know, I've got, I've got four that are, that are really moving in some kind of way or another. With the client in tow. Yeah, there's no concession. There's no concession at all, at all, matter of fact. So they want what they want, and that's okay, because that's what I'm here to do, is deliver on that and to find the best path forward. Sometimes it's less square footage. If there is a constraint on you know what they're willing to invest but make no mistake, a lot of these folks have the money to do it, they just know that it's not a fiscally responsible decision, unless they're going to live in it themselves. So totally well. And speaking of $10 million projects, tell the total listeners about the the one that you guys just got awarded. Yeah. So unlike being it's not awarded in our case, but we were presented an opportunity. There's a local magazine here. It's Atlanta homes and lifestyle. We have been working with them for a couple of years to identify a great site, pull in an amazing architect, and leverage all the best designers in our market to put together essentially, not A, not A parade home, like, let's make let's let's not get confused. It is not a parade home at all. It is actually, you've got every major brand that that's in the luxury space that wants to be a part of this to showcase their best and newest products, and they approach the magazine to bring those products forward. We are just the sponsor builder who was selected, but we get an opportunity to conduct the show and to build this house. And so we are going to be doing the 2026, holiday show House, which, you know, it's it's a beautifully designed home by Rodolfo Castro. I'm incredibly humbled to be working alongside with him. His his work is typically reserved for those who who commissioned him and and occupy his time. So to be able to build one for him outside of the confines of having a client on board is a really special honor. The interior designers that the editor brings on board and that, you know, they are just amazing. We have some absolutely amazing investors on board bringing this to life, so it will be for sale once it does go up. But they sell tickets to this event, and 1000s of people, quite literally, will come and tour this house over the course of about a month or so's time until you know the end in which it will hopefully go home with someone new. You can't say go home to a house that you're buying. You're coming home to the to the home that you Yeah, that you didn't know, that you really needed, that that didn't exist today, that will then that. You know, that's what I love about I'm picking up what you're putting out. I think that they probably do know, they just haven't identified it yet. True, but no, I'm super stoked to follow that one along. For anyone who isn't following you, how do they follow you along and like, stay up to date on this project? Yeah, I've got to be a little cautious on that particular project, because I don't know what's going to be totally allowed to showcase, but we'll, we'll pepper in some stuff. You can always follow along. Our current signature builds on on Bradford, built on Instagram. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, so I'm always posting the cool stuff that I see, or maybe my thoughts around what it what it is that we're doing that's cool to me. And then, you know, our website is a great place to go. We typically put our portfolio work up there. We try to capture as many as we can. You know, at any given time our firm is is in you know, there could be 12 to 14 projects in flight, but we typically only showcase maybe four or maximum five projects at a time, so that folks can follow along with the builds. Because we're typically talking there's a narrative built around each one of these projects for a specific reason, similar to like our project Golden Leaf, which is, you know, I'm super stoked because it'll be it's our lab house number one is what we're calling it, as we lean into our to our wellness driven initiative and building for the biological as opposed to the to the builders ego and not to offend anyone. But you know that home will be the first home in Georgia to be well certified. So I'm really stoked for that. I'm aiming for platinum. We did blow a 1.3 before any insulation. So okay, I imagine that's good. I can't act like I know what that means. That's got to be good, you know, building, so yeah, but not to that degree. I know it's like a thing where they test like it's the tightness of the home, right? Yeah, it's just an air exchange per hour. And right? So this house is made of ICF, which is, which is not. It's not a new technology at this point, right? Like I'm, I'm reluctant to say that anymore, because in Florida and in some places else, like even in you know, Phoenix, where you you really are shooting for a higher energy, efficient and an insulating property like these homes are great for that reason. But what. Most people don't think about is, is that they don't breathe. And that's a great thing in our case, right? So we want to, we want to minimize any air infiltration coming through the envelope or or any other penetration for that point. And we want to mechanically bring in that air, filter that air, condition that air, and move it around in such a way that, you know, our clients have extreme confidence that the indoor air quality index is going to be as crisp and clean as it could be without any allergens or pollutants. I love it. I love it well. And even just to, like, jump into the topic today, I think, like, this is a fantastic preface, um, adding validity to the topic that we're gonna be talking about today. And I mean, maybe I'm being too ambiguous here, but essentially, like, Brad, this stuff doesn't happen overnight. Like, I remember when I met you, was this five years ago? Had to have been five, if not over five years ago? Trend, university, yeah, we were drinking boots down in the I can't remember what it's called, that crescent moon. Anyways, you've been, you built a hell of a business. And for today's topic, I'm massively interested to dig into. I guess we could call it like, your perspective on capital in the business, talking about, like profitability, kind of your journey and even what you're doing today. And for the listeners, again, like when we're talking to Brad, and he's got, you know, 10 to 12 projects going at any given time. And he's got, you know, $10 million opportunities that he's working through. All of this stuff takes time. But again, it can be, it can happen on, like, a fairly accelerated path, if you're as focused as Brad is. So I'm stoked to kind of dig into your mind on that. So I think just to like, kind of like, preface the conversation regarding capital, like, how do you view raising capital, deploying capital, leveraging it in your business? Yeah. And has that been an evolution, right? So, you know, when I started this business, I was much like anyone else, I had a small seed or nest egg that I was operating to try to maintain and hold very tightly to. I wasn't deploying any of my own capital towards the projects, per se, and I wasn't doing a lot of investing. At the early onset, I was focused on attracting the right client. And I mean, look hell, I could say that I was trying to attract any client at the onset to try to build my name and or build a good reputation and showcase my my craftsmanship and the quality of work and the type of experience that I really wanted to be able to deliver to our customers. And I got really good at that first. So let's, let's just start there, right? I come from very humble beginnings. I didn't have, like, you know, there was no gift that I got starting this thing, I started it from absolutely zero. And, you know, from day one, I focused on the core. The core values is just doing the right, doing right by the clients, and building it that way. Now, as as time went on, and I was able to, you know, pull back a little bit and then begin to deploy capital personally for myself again, as I had in my past, right? But not while I was actually executing, you know, I'm like everybody else. I was trying to build a spec here or there for myself, for my own portfolio. And now, as things have evolved, I'm building more build to rents to keep for myself. So I don't really have a build and exit strategy from a personal portfolio perspective at this time. What, but what I did is, you know, the conversations are, you know, quickly come up between some of the best agents that we're working with, other developers, you know, people that share values and that want to do projects with you because of the things that you're doing, or the, you know, the uniqueness of the type of building you're doing. And I think in this case, I'm kind of more speaking to our wellness driven approach. If you look outwardly at communities, you know, you only have one option, you've got pretty builder a or pretty builder B, and then you're breaking based on personality. Who do I get along with for a year and a half or two? Right? Totally, in this case, we have developers approaching us saying, hey, we want to approach more high net worth individuals and people that tend to optimize their life are interested in health and wellness, and we would like for you to help us attract by being a builder on our development and so now, as things have kind of changed, and that's really, really recent, let me be transparent, this, this wellness based approach, is new to us. I mean, we've been working on it for a little bit better than seven months, but I've only been deploying it now for in total, two months, sure. So you're right on the front end. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we've only begun publicly explaining this and so but, but to talk about the capital component of it, you know, when I was first engaging with banks and communicating with hard money lenders and or private money and JV deals, there's. Lot of ways to go about this, and right? And so the easiest way, I think, if I were a new builder, getting into this, is think about it in two ways. Do you want an equity partner? Do you want a debt partner? I think people just need to delineate that right away. And there are so many creative ways to craft a deal and how to get something out of the dirt, but you got to start there, and you got to understand the rules of engagement with those two different paths are going to lead you in two different places, 100% and not to derail. I don't want you to lose your train of thought. But just for the listeners, like, what is the simplest way to view equity partner as opposed to a debt partner? Yeah. I mean, an equity partner is a true partner for for the most part, right? Like they're taking the risk with you. You know you're assigning, though, that dollar amount that they're contributing to the project a value, or not necessarily a value, but a percentage of what the net outcome is going to be, right? And you're sharing in it with them in that regard. Now you you find yourself with a debt partner. They're going to bring you the debt, but they expect nothing on the back end other than what they're charging you from an origination perspective, and then what your interest is you're going to have to carry. But it gets tricky, right? Because you have a couple of different waterfalls and and, you know, look, every project you create your own, you know, you've got your own structure that you've got to deliver on. But, you know, there, there's some, there's a couple of different ways to approach it, but, and I don't like leveraging debt. I never have, but there are cases and times depending on what your deal pipeline looks like that you may choose to take on debt because your equity position may need to change. You might have to or you know, you know that it's there, and you want to jump in head first, right? Like feels good enough. The risk reward, that's what you got to work on. So, but when it comes to deploying it, wow, is that such a great question, right? Well, first you got to raise it. So good luck there. Because if you didn't have a full time job building, now you got a new one. And then once you've raised it, welcome to having a boss, right? Because now that's your first boss, right, right? You know you, you serve them, you their their return comes first, and that's the mentality that I take on it. Now you're bringing opportunity. You should consider yourself a partner in that, in that trend, in that transaction, right? But at the same time, make no bones about it, there's a, there's, there's a lot that goes into it, and the perception and everything shifts from that point so but, but then you have to execute, you know, let's, let's not forget that component of it, if, just because you have the money you got to put to work, totally 100% there, there's the back half of it, right? So you go get that you do all this work to be able to take it in, and then you got to go execute it, and then you got to deliver your returns for your investors. Otherwise, there is no Series B. The easiest money to raise is the first one, right? Everything after that is based on results. You might get one shot, but that second shot is going to be earned, and that's that's really, really important to understand, is like, you be sure that you're ready to go down this path before you take it, because life doesn't have to be this hard. Like, and I'm not suggesting it's hard. I've got partners, I've got people, I've got processes, I've got a lot of infrastructure built into developing all of this at this point, but you should just know what you're jumping into 100% well. And I think, like, like, the execution side and having the boss comment are, like, very much one in the same, right? And you also talk about, like, know what you're getting into, just, like, first off, like, how did you think about this when you went through not just, not just raising the money, but then deciding, like, who are the equity partners and what do they need to bring for you to ultimately, like, bring them in as a boss or a partner on these projects. Like, how did you go through that thinking and make that decision? Yeah, well, I'll be transparent. Like, I am not a fan of having to turn over 7000 documents to a bank and then giving my firstborn child as collateral, right? You know, and your blood test on the way out the door. That's cumbersome. It's It's taxing. It's in, yes, you can build great relationships on the on the backside of that conversation, once you've done the hard work. But let's be real. As builders and as entrepreneurs, we're not exactly trying our very best to showcase how much money we make, right? That's not the goal. The goal is to is to try to balance, you know that your your taxable income versus what you're buying and putting back into the business and reinvesting so you know, you've got a plan long before you go show up on the doorstep of a bank and get your get your financial house in order to be able to do it that way. The other side of the equation is, is that when you. Go to an equity partner, you need to understand that it is your deal. You have structured it for the reasons that you feel confident in doing the deal to start with. So you need to be prepared to defend your strategy, that strategy is uniquely yours. And the most important thing I think, an investor or a GP can do, right? You're the general partner. You're looking for a limited partner. You don't want their involvement per se. You want their capital to deploy. You don't need to let them invest so much that they have all the power on the GP to do as they suggest, because they could come in and sabotage your strategy, and so I always say that you want an LP who aligns to your vision. Do they understand it? Do they believe in your core, in your philosophy? Do they believe in your in your core values and what you're trying to deliver for the reasons that you're going to deliver? Or are they really trying to extract every red cent out of that deal. Right? Which I'm not going to say isn't the isn't the right move. I'm just guessing that if you're doing a project in a lane that you feel really confident in being able to execute in that you have to stick to your guns, and you have to know, you have to know the why of why you're doing it. And I think finding a partner that believes in that too is really important. But don't, you know, don't mistake the fact that you're going to have to answer. And so a really great way to do that is is hold a monthly budgetary meeting. Know your overage, know your under, know where you're at. Have a plan in place for if you have a shortfall, make sure that you have a lever to pull if you need to go raise more capital and whose shares are getting diluted in that if it's an equity play, you need to have those rules of engagement defined. And I find that the more transparent you are in your performer and inside of your legal documentation, whether you're doing a JV deal, or whether you're doing it inside of a, let's say, a private equity fund, all of those things need to be clearly defined, whether it's one sheet of paper or whether it's 500 sheets of paper. I know because I have both. In my case, I have, you know, I did JV deals to start. I still do JV deals outside of the fund, because sometimes an LP comes your way and wants to partner on one to show proof of concept rather than get engaged on a longer term engagement, right? So my private equity fund is designed to operate for five years on a much larger strategy, right? So you kind of think about the onesie twosies, JV, you start thinking about a larger initiative. You start thinking about a private equity fund. And you know, in this case, it's like, okay, the difference in raising $8 million and raising 50 that's two different things totally. And there's a timeline horizon, because you can go raise $2 million well, that's great. Well, what? What do you need to fund your project? Because you got 2 million loi, but guess what? Now you're sitting until you go raise the rest, because you can't deploy the capital until you're ready. So you can, you can sit on it, but you can't deploy it. So and then that transparently, that money can die on the vine if you don't go raise it, right? So there's a lot of different moving parts involved with this. So again, it's an it's a full time job. You've got to be prepared for that. You got to understand that uniquely, totally well. And the die on the vine comment stands out because, like, as you're explaining this, it's resonating to me is like you've gotten started, or rather, you've started the JV deals and the fund together or in tandem at the same time, I just have them both going on. The fund is the newer of the structure type, which I've had equal amounts of interest in. It's just different type of investors that want to be involved in that, because 10 million might be the starting point for a family office to want to invest, right? Whereas someone, an individual, a friend or a family member or a close friend of a friend, might be interested in going in larger but on a shorter timeline horizon, right? Oh, and where I was going with that is like, back to the die on the vine comment and like deploying that capital. Like, are you essentially looking at like, the JV deals as like pipeline for your fund, because, like, you'd made the comment of like, the proof of concept people wanting to get, you know, a proof of concept out the door before they're fully engaged in, like, moving making bigger bets. Is that the way to look at it, or am I missing something? I think that that is just a circumstantial or situational kind of thing. You don't know who you're going to meet when you're going to meet them. You don't know what someone's you know what their strategy is, or what they're trying to deploy. You got to remember, there's a lot of different type of investors out there, just like you personally, like your strategy is going to be different than my strategy. Are you looking for cash flow? Are you looking for tax savings? Are you looking for you know? Are you looking. For healthy cap gain, right? Like, what are you looking for? So you have to know who you're approaching, and you have to find out why, or what their Why is, unless they're just, you know, liquid enough that they can do whatever they want and take a flyer just for fun, because they know that real estate is less risky than the market is, right now, totally interesting. No, that's great. Well, and even, like you were, you were talking about the wellness side, like, how are you structuring your fund? And, like, how does that work? Yeah, well, the wellness and the fund are uniquely connected, because the type of real estate that we're developing is luxury based on building for the biological so, you know, when you think about ultra high net worth individual wanting to build their own home, they are absolutely going to be focused and leaning in on the newest technologies that are going to allow for them to to operate at their peak. And so they're not interested in having a home that is just simply beautiful. They want a home that is functional and supportive of that optimization. And might I dare lean into a home that's going to allow them to potentially live longer? Because I think that there's data to suggest, and we're having it tested very soon, I hope that we'll be able to showcase, from a statistical perspective, that if you do these things, then you will potentially get this outcome. And so I'm not gonna make, yeah, I'm not gonna make a medical claim here today without having any data support it. But you know, you know my past, you know my background, I'm not gonna do anything without pressure testing it to the point where, you know, if I were the buyer, I would, I would be able to completely understand it and completely and buy into that, right? So I take my health and my wellness very serious. I know that there are ways that we can incorporate specific systems and specific components into a home that will reduce my cortisol, that will help prevent it from spiking too early in the day and will help me reduce my resting heart rate earlier or earlier in the evening, which will help me go down easier, which will mean my HRV will be improved as I sleep, which means that my sleep performance is better, which means that over compounded, over 15 years, I don't know, maybe those last 10 marginal years of life become A little bit better, dude. I don't know. I think this is just adding even into the why, right, when you're talking about, like, going down this path of raising capital, like, the depth of your why and the authenticity of your why is so clear. And I applaud you for that, just as a side comment, because, like, it's not just like, Oh, I see a trend in health and wellness and, like, I think we can build houses around it. It's like, to your point, like, you've got to pressure test it. It's got to make sense. You're seeking the data, right? There's a bigger vision at play than just saying, Hey, this is a trend, or this is a fat opportunity that I'm going to go after. Like, you're going so deep that when you are going into these raising capital conversations, like, it is clear that either that person is going to be on board and they believe in Brad Robinson, or they're just not the right partner, exactly. And I don't want to partner with anybody that doesn't see it, because if they don't see it, they're not going to understand the incremental costs that it takes to develop these at the onset, but they're also not going to see that supportive return on investment that may not come as physical dollars and cents on day one, but the client that we're trying to attract is going to look at that and say that there's monumental value in having those systems in that home, and one that will support a higher price point. So yes, my homes cost more expensive on day one to produce because of the systems that I'm putting into them, but the clients, once they've they've understood what components are in the house and the systems that are in the house are going to what the net benefit is going to be. They'll pay anything for that. Like Reese, how much is a year of your life worth? Or, Hey, how much is how much is having a birthday where you're actually functional at age? Like, would you pay for? How much would you pay 100 that's, that's the idea. And it's like, I don't want to build for the sake of my structure being well built. Like, I'm going to do that anyway. Like, to build my house is to last for a specific amount of time. And I would suggest that, you know, we're building a generational home to start with. So that's the bar, like the floor, right? The ceiling is, is building for that biological impact and effect and and there are plenty of people that are doing it and doing it really good. I mean, plenty is, is relative. I think that it's a small pool of builders in the market right now. And look just like when sustainability and green building technologies and look, I love passive, I love FIAs, I love ENERGY STAR, because we need to protect our grid. I mean, good God, with AI coming like, Who do you think is going to. It first dibs at power a residential homeowner or an AI farm. 1000 kind of thing that AI farm will probably be able to outbid me on how much power costs. So, you know, we have all these things that we need to worry about. These are not, they're they're not individual conversations in a silo. They're all interconnected. Yep, yeah, no, I think, I think this is a just like, a spectacular comment. I appreciate you coming on. I always like to say one last piece here is like, in terms of the individual that is, again, early in their journey, that's listening to this podcast, and they're saying, Damn, like, Brad is like, out there. He is thinking five years ahead, 10 years ahead. He's raising, or he's building private equity funds. He's talking about joint venture deals. He's talking about all of these different things, like, just to reiterate, potentially, or just like, what would you share with them to get them on that path or in a position where they could build towards that? I mean, first things first is you have to have a great foundation of what you're building. You can't step outside and let you know. You know, I think if you looked at the average builder, I don't even know how many hours they choose to spend working on their business, as opposed to running around checking job sites, you know, building schedules, dealing with the finances or dealing with some individual office manager, but I've built a system that allows for me to spend 100% of my time working on my business. That's beautiful. Don't work in it ever I have, I have lots of great support staff and team and processes that that they are doing on a day to day basis. And so my time is spent focusing on how I want to navigate this business, through our climate, through our markets that we serve, and think in ways that will position us to be ahead of the curve, just like I think any top CEO in any Fortune 500 company would do if they were forced to go deal with all the minutia of running a business on a day to day basis, They would be terrible CEOs, totally, you know, like, I that's, that's really where it comes down to. So you got to get, you got to get your house in order. You got to make sure that the processes are there and that, you know, quite frankly, and you got to have somebody manage them. That's it. It's not a micromanagement conversation. I'm a servant leader by nature. I just want to remove all the roadblocks from my people, so that they can do their very best work. But once you once you've got the systems, you know, scaled alongside the business, then you can go out there and focus on where, you know, where, where you're taking the business. This is like, this is a motivating episode in the sense of everybody talks about working on the business, not in the business. Everybody aspires to having the processes, the systems, the teams, to execute, so the owner can remove themselves from the minutia and focus on vision execution. Where is this thing going to go? What's the bigger picture? What's the why? So I think for anyone that's out there listening to this is like, I think this is extremely aspirational, but know that it's not out of reach. Like, this isn't this isn't impossible to do. It just emphasizes the importance of, as you said, Brad, get your house in order. Like, be real about where you are at in business and what that what the execution looks like to get the product off the ground, in the hands of the homeowner, and then ask yourself the question, where do I need to be focusing? Do I need to be focusing on building a fund, or do I need to be focusing on systematizing, busy building the business so that I can remove myself and focus on this stuff? Man? I was coaching. I was coaching. You know, call it coaching, whatever. But I was, I was having a great conversation with a wonderful builder down in the Sarasota market. And, you know, he was asking me some questions about, you know, how to develop these things. And one of the things that came up, and I, and after I had that conversation, I started thinking about the why behind why you develop your standard operating procedures. And I, you know, you obviously want to develop the SOPs to fit the business today, but you you do want to begin to develop an SOP for what that next potential role is going to be that you know, you need to add to the stack. But developing those SOPs is going to essentially guide you towards who your next hire, really, really, really should be right. And you know, if you're, if you're stuck in a place where you're questioning, like, Who is that next person going to be? Write those SOPs, and you will figure it out really fast. But I, but I say all of this because I, I'm not a pessimist. I don't think the world's going to end tomorrow. I feel like I'm in great health. But that doesn't mean that I don't go to the stop sign at the corner and get T boned and I'm no longer here. Totally I developed my SOPs as if the person who's going to have to come in behind me to figure out what all this is can do it. So if you just start there. Act as act as if this SOP is designed, and I know in the building industry, it's highly personal. And oftentimes there's, you know, there's a Mrs. A wife, there's somebody who might be complimentary to the business and operating in some kind of minimalistic capacity, or even in a maximalist capacity, draw your SOPs up like they got to step into your shoes tomorrow. Yeah, you'll find very quickly where your gaps are, and it will inspire you to begin to develop them more in a more sophisticated way that you know you could be more hands off you do that and for the reasons, the right reasons, it'll it'll flesh itself out. That's extremely tactical. I appreciate the whole audio for jumping on the podcast. This was fantastic. I appreciate it, and we'll be in touch, dude. I'm looking forward to it. All right, we'll see Brad. See you.